Blue Moon Fans

Rules - More Rules Questions (Various)
gdozzi - Di 13 Apr, 2004 13:55
Titel: More Rules Questions (Various)
I have some more rules questions:

1. Concerning Hoax - Sarogakanas the Ancient (and any other similar cards that may exist): do I look at my opponent's hand and choose two cards to discard, or do I choose the two cards blindly and randomly?

2. Concerning Leadership cards: does "on this turn" mean only the turn of the player playing the Leadership card, or the entire cycle consisting also of his/her opponent's turn? (this question comes up with Hoax - Enthrall Opposition).

Many thanks,
Giancarlo
Sebastian Rapp / Kosmos - Di 13 Apr, 2004 15:58
Titel: Re: More Rules Questions (Various)
gdozzi hat folgendes geschrieben:
I have some more rules questions:

1. Concerning Hoax - Sarogakanas the Ancient (and any other similar cards that may exist): do I look at my opponent's hand and choose two cards to discard, or do I choose the two cards blindly and randomly?

2. Concerning Leadership cards: does "on this turn" mean only the turn of the player playing the Leadership card, or the entire cycle consisting also of his/her opponent's turn? (this question comes up with Hoax - Enthrall Opposition).

Many thanks,
Giancarlo


1. The text does not say "choose" but "draw". "Draw" does always mean, you have to draw randomly.
2. Rules page 7: "... some remain active for your entire turn, but never beyond the current turn." So when your turn (the current one) is over, a new turn begins. And your leadercard is no longer actice.

Sebastian Rapp / Kosmos
gdozzi - Di 13 Apr, 2004 16:01
Titel:
OK...that's how we've been playing, but I wanted to make sure. Thanks for the help!
Ruwenzori - Do 17 Feb, 2005 10:00
Titel:
Some Qs (partially already with As) from the German forums section.

Q: Is ist possible to ignore Hyla Octaks special text ("At the end of each fight, if I hold fewer than eight cards in my hand, I may draw to eight cards."), lets say with khind27 "Lachgas\Laughing Gas"?

A:(official) No


Q: Is ist possible to ignore Hyla Piplox' special text ("On my turn, I may play one additional booster/support card."), lets say with khind27 "Lachgas\Laughing Gas"?

A: (official) Yes


Q: Is ist possible to ignore Inquisitor Razor-Minds special text ("+5 Karten/Cards +5 Monde/Moons - I may play my cards as if they had the REPLACE icon."), lets say with khind27 "Lachgas\Laughing Gas"? If yes, with what effect on the first, the deck building part of the text?

A: (official) Yes for the second text part, and no for the deck building/moon s part.


Q: When Hyla Piplox ("On my turn, I may play one additional booster/support card.") is active, may I play one booster/support card after having played a character with a STOP symbol?

A: (official) Yes, like it is the case with hoax29 and flit31


Q: May I play leadership Bounce Back ("My active cards attack again."), when there is no fight, and so I do not have any cards that could attack again? This would make sense when I have more dragons as my opponent, have 4 cards in my hand and none left on my pile. I would then play this leadership with no effect, discard the remaining three cards, and game is over, I win).

A: (official) Yes.
stizn - Do 17 Feb, 2005 10:10
Titel:
Q: Is ist possible to ignore Hyla Octaks special text ("At the end of each fight, if I hold fewer than eight cards in my hand, I may draw to eight cards."), lets say with khind27 "Lachgas\Laughing Gas"?


i think its impossible to ignore a card that effects after a fight...

because laughing gas is no longer active and on the discardpile at this phase

sg stizn
kilrah - Do 17 Feb, 2005 10:53
Titel:
I agree with stizn. I think the confusion migth be that some red that as "at the end of the turn" instead of "at the end of the fight". In the first case I'd say it can be ignored, but the card isn't that strong and with its real text it should be impossible to get ignored.
Ruwenzori - Do 17 Feb, 2005 11:18
Titel:
uh, you are right, this might be so.

Quotation from the rules part on "winning a fight":
Zitat:
Both players now remove all their cards from their combat and support areas and place them face up on their respective discard piles.
At the end of any fight, both players refresh their hands to six cards by drawing from their draw decks. If you already have six or more cards in your hand, you keep those cards rather than refreshing your hand.
Then the retreating player starts the next fight.

If the order of writing represents the order of gameplay, then you are both possibly right. As there is nothing said about the order, a clarification would be nice.

I made a mistake on writing the Qs and As on the Hylas together. I edited my first "A" to "none yet" and added a second Q after it, which I forgot first.

Thanks.
Dearlove - Do 17 Feb, 2005 22:03
Titel:
Ruwenzori hat folgendes geschrieben:
Some Qs (partially already with As) from the German forums section.

Well, I have answers to all of these questions, but I ought to let Sebastian have them first. (Phone discussion with Reiner, on this and other matters, is the source.) I also need to write them up as proper Q&As in my usual format.
Ruwenzori - Do 17 Feb, 2005 22:33
Titel:
Thanks. I only noticed after writing how many open questions there were at the moment. Its sometimes really hard to keep track of all the various threads and questions in them.

We'll keep in patience then.
Dearlove - Fr 18 Feb, 2005 00:30
Titel:
Ruwenzori hat folgendes geschrieben:
Thanks. I only noticed after writing how many open questions there were at the moment.

Even that's not the complete list (though it is most of them). After all it's not much more than a week since a significant list of brand new concepts were added to the game. The good news is that all of the questions can be answered without invoking any new unwritten rules.
Ruwenzori - Fr 18 Feb, 2005 09:20
Titel:
Some questions that I failed to collect here until now:

Q: If I play with Inquisitor Razor-Mind ("+5 Karten/Cards +5 Monde/Moons - I may play my cards as if they had the REPLACE icon."), and my opponent plays a card to ignore my symbols
namely terrah26 "Undurchdringlicher Nebel/Impenetrable Fog" "Deine Symbole werden ignoriert, mit Ausnahme von STOPP- und GESCHÜTZT-Symbolen./Your icons are ignored, except STOP and PROTECTED."
or a card to ignore my cards that have symbols
namely flit13 "Mad Mike/Mad Mike Magpie" "Deine Karten mit Symbolen werden ignoriert, mit Ausnahme von Flit-Charakteren und Karten mit dem GESCHÜTZT-Symbol./Your cards with icons are ignored, except Flit character cards and PROTECTED cards."

which effect has this

Q1: on any of my cards, that dont have a printed symbol on them, and that are not already covered by Q2?

Q2: on a card, that I wish to play in accordance of Razor-Minds special function, as if it had a REPLACE-symbol?

Q3: on cards, that have a printed REPLACE symbol on them?

All answers are official meanwhile.

A1: no effect, because they could only act, as if they had a REPLACE symbol on them, but dont have it, and I dont want to play it as if they had.

A2: the answer must be the same as for Q3, because if I wish to use the special text, it adds a REPLACE symbol to this card, which makes it the same case as Q3.

A3: I may not use the REPLACE symbol then, as it is ignored and can be ignored.

A3: If I wish to play a card with the REPLACE symbol: this case is clear: the card is ignored by flit13, and the REPLACE symbol is ignored by terray26, which has no effect on playing this card.
Dearlove - Di 22 Feb, 2005 00:12
Titel: Replies
I think these are all now answered in the FAQ. In at least one case this may not be exactly as you were expecting.
Ruwenzori - Di 22 Feb, 2005 13:22
Titel:
Thank you, I will work my posting over the other day.

Another one:
Q: If I have an active Hyla Piplox ("On my turn, I may play one additional booster/support card."), and I play a card with a STOP symbol before my booster+support phase, may I play now exactly 1 booster/support card (allowed by special power text of Hyla Piplox), or may I play 1 booster/support card AND any number of FREE booster/support cards in addition?

A: just 1 booster/support card. The special power text of Hyla Piplox does not re-instantiate the allowness to play 1 regular booster/support card, only on which the allowness to play FREE booster/support cards is bound.
Dearlove - Di 22 Feb, 2005 19:39
Titel:
Ruwenzori hat folgendes geschrieben:
Another one


Yes, I saw this (in abbreviated form, not spelled out in detail) and didn't feel it was really a new question, as all that's new is that the text is on a Hyla rather than a leadership card. Does that need saying?
Ruwenzori - Di 22 Feb, 2005 20:58
Titel:
hm, the question with the additional FREE b/s was never asked before in any conjunction (AFAIK).

But it is merely one for the EAQ*, not for the FAQ section ...


By the way, all answers are completed in the above Qs now from your FAQ texts.



* every asked question
Dearlove - Di 22 Feb, 2005 23:51
Titel:
Ruwenzori hat folgendes geschrieben:
But it is merely one for the EAQ*, not for the FAQ


Sometimes I feel I'm writing an EAQ.
erml - Fr 13 Mai, 2005 23:17
Titel:
From the new FAQ:
Dearlove hat folgendes geschrieben:
Q: If you have an active CoolCat [Khind 01] ("The odd printed values of
your character cards reduce to 0."), the contested element is fire
and I play Speedius Unnecessarius [Pillar 06] (Fire value 3, Earth
value 4) and Potion of Prodigious Passion [Pillar 26, Hoax deck]
("The values of one of my character cards increase to 5.") what is
my total power?

A: 5. Note that although usually cards which increase power are applied
first (rulebook page 18, under 7: 'If there is more than one
instruction influencing the fire or earth values of other cards,
first apply all increasing instructions in the order that maximizes
the values, then apply the decreasing instructions in the order that
minimizes the values.') cards which apply to printed value have to be
applied first, as after other cards which affect power are applied,
this is no longer printed value. So CoolCat is applied first, then
potion of Prodigious Passion, resulting in a power of 5.


But in this case, the order of applying instructions would have no effect on the total power. Even if I first would apply the potion, and then CoolCat, I have a power of 5. Because the Cat doesn't affect values, but only printed values. Is this right?

Greetings
Erml
Dearlove - Sa 14 Mai, 2005 16:50
Titel:
erml hat folgendes geschrieben:
But in this case, the order of applying instructions would have no effect on the total power.

In a sense, yes, because of the impossible to apply card. But there are other cases (I think at least one of the examples given) which would differ, and in any case it's probably not a useful avenue to go down as trying to argue how to apply impossible cards is a bit counterproductive.
jimrcook - Do 26 Mai, 2005 00:48
Titel: Who 'ran out of cards' first?
If I have one dragon on my side, and I play my last card: Hoax05 RETRIEVE 3/3 "Ciklarethas the Bitter", then my opponent plays his last card: Mimix13 PAIR 3/3 "Wild Gazelle" and I use the RETRIEVE icon, then retreat, my one dragon goes into the middle.

The game now ends, because (at least) my opponent is out of cards and no new fights can be started. Who wins? Did I 'un-runout' so then my opponent "ran out of cards" first?
Frog - Do 26 Mai, 2005 07:14
Titel:
I would say so. Because the Rules state that
"When one player has played or discarded all his cards from his draw deck and from his hand then no new fights may be started."
but you haven't discarded all your cards from your hand because you have one on your hand. It doesn't matter how it came there. The condition is tested at the beginning of the new round - you can still play a character but your opponent can not. Therefore you have won.

At least that's my understanding of the game.
kilrah - Do 26 Mai, 2005 09:48
Titel:
However in that very example it would be a better idea to just play Ciklarethas the Bitter again. Because in that case you'll win 3:0 instead of 1:0 as you enemy would be forced to retreat then.
Ladoik - Do 26 Mai, 2005 13:21
Titel:
But if Ciklarethas is not enough, he can't play it again Wink
Frog ist right, you win.
Geirröd - Do 26 Mai, 2005 13:30
Titel:
Zitat:
However in that very example it would be a better idea to just play Ciklarethas the Bitter again.

That is not possible because "Wild Gazelle" was the last card of jimrcook's opponent and the game comes to an end immidiately.
And yes, you win the game.

Greetings Geirröd
KivasFajo - Do 26 Mai, 2005 16:03
Titel:
@Geirröd: I think Kilrah wanted to play Ciklarethas again instead of retreating from the fight. In this case he is right.
kilrah - Do 26 Mai, 2005 18:56
Titel:
Exactly. Don't retreat, but play him instead for 2 extra crystals.
Dearlove - Do 26 Mai, 2005 23:15
Titel: Re: Who 'ran out of cards' first?
jimrcook hat folgendes geschrieben:
If I have one dragon on my side, and I play my last card: Hoax05 RETRIEVE 3/3 "Ciklarethas the Bitter", then my opponent plays his last card: Mimix13 PAIR 3/3 "Wild Gazelle" and I use the RETRIEVE icon, then retreat, my one dragon goes into the middle.

The game now ends, because (at least) my opponent is out of cards and no new fights can be started. Who wins? Did I 'un-runout' so then my opponent "ran out of cards" first?


This is mostly answered in the FAQ - see the first question in the End of Game section, which covers the un-runout point - but it doesn't quite cover all the details of this case, which I had thought it did. However it should be adequate to answer it (as others have done). It's an overlong answer though, it could probably do with being divided into two or three questions covering the existing material and this point. No promises but I'll consider doing this when I next do an update. (Too late for the latest one additional question change, and not important enough to be an issue in itself I think.)
Ruwenzori - Mo 11 Jul, 2005 18:05
Titel:
Some Qs from the German forums section about the new cards. I did not put the correct card names (only people and number), because we do not yet have an English translation to them.

Q: If I have six cards and play Ketharkopas the Astronomer [Hoax 15, Khind deck] ("If my turn is about to end with me holding fewer than nine cards in my hand, I may draw to nine cards.") and my opponent has an active [Flit 28] ("At the end of your turn, you may not draw any additional cards") up to how many cards do I draw?

no official answer yet. 2 variants by users discussion:
A1: Up to 6, the special text of Ketharkopas the Astronomer does not have the word "additional" in it, but the cards I draw really are in addition, thus "additional".

A2: Up to 9, the special text of Ketharkopas the Astronomer does not have the word "additional" in it, thus the Flit28 text does not harm it.


Q: If I play [Aqua 12] Yang or [Aqua 13] Yin ("The next character, booster or support card, that I play in my turn, is treated as if it would have a FREE symbol.") and my opponent has an active Impenetrable Fog [Terrah 26] ("Your icons are ignored, except STOP and PROTECTED."), may I use Yin/Yangs special text (because the card I play does not act as if it had a printed symbol on it), or may I not (because the FREE symbol does act as if it were printed and hence it becomes ignored)?

A: (official) You may not. The FREE symbol acts as if it were printed, for the time you play the card. Once it is played, there is no more FREE symbol on it. That is why such a card is not affected by an active Mad Mike Magpie [Flit 13, Terrah deck] ("Your cards with icons are ignored, except Flit character cards and PROTECTED cards.").


Q: I play Mekarthas [Hoax 16] "Your symbols are ignored, except STOP symbols", my opponent plays a card with the PROTECTED symbol, lets say a support card [Aqua 23]. May I now in my turn discard this PROTECTED symbol card, because the PROTECTED symbol is ignored by my Mekhartas, or not?

A: (official) Yes you may.


Q: If I play with [Inqu 411] "At the begin of the game I win 1 dragon" - when exactly do I win that dragon? When showing my Inquisitor to my opponent, when having drawn my 6 startcards (then choosing my dragons colour by intent could make sense - crystal cards), or when having changed my 6 start cards and are ready to play?

A: (official) When showing my Inquisitor to my opponent.


Q: My opponent has an active flood card [Aqua 25 and 26] "If I have more than one active flood support after the end of my turn, you have to retreat immediately." and is about to play the second flood. May I now use [inter404] Genug jetzt!/Enough of this! "I may play this card immediately after you announce your power: Your turn ends immediatly." to have his turn ending without a regular "end of turn phase", so there is no regular "after the end of his turn", and I may discard one of his floods in my turn?

A: (official) No you may not. Even an irregular "end of turn" leads to an regular "after end of turn", and you have to retreat.


Q: May I play [Pillar 32] "Now we both may discard cards with a printed value of 2 fire and 2 earth (on different cards) to attract one dragon." without effect (as it reads "may")?

A: (inofficial by fans) No you may not. The "may" says that each of the players may or may not do so, it says not that you force your opponent to may not do so.


best regards,
Ruwi
Dearlove - Mo 11 Jul, 2005 19:35
Titel:
I think all but two of these are in the new FAQ list I just uploaded (not entirely by coincidence, there are "back channels" of communication). The other two will probably be added sometime soon.

This issue of the FAQ is the first with the Aqua and E&I 2 decks in it, including some PROTECTED questions, questions about the new inquisitors, Yin and Yang, that sort of thing. As ever, feedback welcome.
Dearlove - Mi 13 Jul, 2005 22:01
Titel:
Ruwenzori hat folgendes geschrieben:
Q: May I play [Pillar 32] "Now we both may discard cards with a printed value of 2 fire and 2 earth (on different cards) to attract one dragon." without effect (as it reads "may")?

A: (inofficial by fans) No you may not. The "may" says that each of the players may or may not do so, it says not that you force your opponent to may not do so.


Actually this one has been in the English language FAQ for a while, as

Zitat:
Q: Are the Chosen Ones special power texts optional, can I play one and have it affect neither of us, in effect discarding it?

A: No. They are all compulsory, as indicated by "Now we both ..." without any "may" or similar condition.


And of course the English language FAQ is officially (almost) official (as it says!).
Ruwenzori - Do 14 Jul, 2005 09:14
Titel:
The question arose only because this is the 1st and only Chosen which has the word "may" in its condition (which makes the reason given to your answer incorrect by the way).
Dearlove - Do 14 Jul, 2005 18:34
Titel:
Ruwenzori hat folgendes geschrieben:
The question arose only because this is the 1st and only Chosen which has the word "may" in its condition (which makes the reason given to your answer incorrect by the way).


Missed that. I wrote it for the first E&I deck and didn't check if it was still correct. I'll get back to you.
Ruwenzori - Mo 18 Jul, 2005 14:45
Titel:
Regarding this new entry in your FAQ list:
Zitat:
Q: If I have an active gang, and then, on a subsequent turn, I play
KhindKin [Khind 23, 1st E&I deck] ("I may play this card into my
combat area without pushing the previously active cards under it.")
can I also play a FREE character?

A: You may, but the cards in the gang will become inactive. Rulebook
page 7, under Character: 'Play a character card from your hand face
up into your combat area. All cards in the combat area from your
previous turn are pushed together under your new character card and
are no longer active.'. The play of the FREE character, whether
before or after KhindKin, causes this to happen, and the gang
characters become inactive. Note that this is because KhindKin's text
does not apply when the FREE character is played, and the FREE icon's
effect (Rulebook page 15, under FREE: 'Cards depicting the FREE icon
do not count towards your limit of one character card and either one
booster or one support card expressed in the rules.') does not apply
to cards played on a previous turn.

there was a follow-up question in the German forum section.

Q: If I have an active gang, and then, on a subsequent turn, I play
another gang-member, can I also play a FREE character?

and already an answer to this question in the German semi-official FAQ,
in section GANG-symbol:

A1: Yes you may. The whole gang and the FREEChar are active.

Without having that entry in mind I already wrote my opinion, that
A2: there would only be the new gang-member and the FREE-Char be active, but *not*
the gang-members from former times. This is because when playing the FREE-
Char - might it be before or after the gang-member - you will have to obey
above stated rule from page 7 'Play a character card from your hand face
up into your combat area. All cards in the combat area from your
previous turn are pushed together under your new character card and
are no longer active.'

Which answer is now correct?

best regards,
Ruwi
Dearlove - Mo 18 Jul, 2005 21:22
Titel:
Ruwenzori hat folgendes geschrieben:
Regarding this new entry in your FAQ list:


Actually that's not new, it's been around for a bit. But that's not the point of course.

Ruwenzori hat folgendes geschrieben:
there was a follow-up question in the German forum section.


There's a similar Q&A in the English FAQ too (in the FREE section rather than the GANG section).

Zitat:
Q: Can a FREE character be used in addition to two or matching GANG characters?

A: Yes, but you have to play the FREE character after all the GANG characters. Rulebook page 16, under GANG: 'If you already played one or more character cards of the same gang on your previous turns, and there are no other active cards in your combat area (character cards not belonging to the gang or booster cards), then at the beginning of the CHARACTER phase of your subsequent turn you can add one or more character cards of the same gang from your hand without pushing the other cards under it.'. If you try playing a FREE character first then the GANG characters won't be at the beginning of your character phase. (You can play a FREE character before - or after - a single GANG character as the GANG rules just give you an extra way to play more than one GANG character.)


There does appear to be an issue here, but I'm not going to tackle it today.
Dearlove - Sa 23 Jul, 2005 00:01
Titel:
OK. The new FAQ list, which I should be uploading in a few minutes (ISP permitting) should, I believe, answer all outstanding questions, not just in this thread. If I've missed anything, or if you have any other feedback, please let me know. There may however be a short delay in answering.
Ruwenzori - Sa 23 Jul, 2005 07:24
Titel:
Thanks a lot! This will help.

I put all new answers to the appropriate German forums places.
BlueMoonPie - So 29 Jan, 2006 00:03
Titel: Curious...
Hello, I have two questions. I know these may sound silly, but I just need to iron it out. First off, let's say I play "Wall of Fire" ( You may not take cards from your draw deck ) and it remains active through out the fight...does this mean my opponent cannot refesh his hand at all for as long as it remains active? And secondly, in the rule book it says "If you have a total of six or more cards (not necessarily all active) in your combat and support areas you attract one additional dragon.). So, can I or can I not count the cards beneath my active cards to gain the six or better? Thanks!
Dearlove - So 29 Jan, 2006 00:47
Titel: Re: Curious...
BlueMoonPie hat folgendes geschrieben:
let's say I play "Wall of Fire" ( You may not take cards from your draw deck ) and it remains active through out the fight...does this mean my opponent cannot refesh his hand at all for as long as it remains active?


Correct. Actually I don't think this one is in the FAQ except as an aside to a more difficult question. I'll think about adding it. But it means what it says, you can't take cards from your draw deck for any reason. Incidentally there's been an interesting case come up recently of the interaction of Bottelus Emptius (or Wall of Fire) and Chosen of Nature. It's in the FAQ.

Revision: I've added it, because I spotted a slight error in the answer referring to the new case I note. Incidentally if you're in the US and you hurry you can download it before I uploaded it (well, as suggested by the date - it's tomorrow here).

BlueMoonPie hat folgendes geschrieben:
in the rule book it says "If you have a total of six or more cards (not necessarily all active) in your combat and support areas you attract one additional dragon.). So, can I or can I not count the cards beneath my active cards to gain the six or better?


You can. This one is in the FAQ.
BlueMoonPie - So 29 Jan, 2006 03:59
Titel:
Thanks for the info Dearlove!
BlueMoonPie - Di 07 Feb, 2006 09:07
Titel:
I just bought the Khind deck and I'm having a bit of a problem understanding the rules in the book and in the FAQS about card text and such. Let's say I want to play just two gang characters on my turn for example. As soon as I lay the the first character card down whatever text it has goes into effect? Then I play the next card on top of it and follow it's text next? Then I add them both to get a total value? I realize that both power texts cannot be active at the same time but I was just wondering how it all worked. Thanks!
ErzEngel - Di 07 Feb, 2006 09:15
Titel:
Hi BlueMoonPie,

you're totally right. Both characters are active at the same time. And first the special function of the first character goes into effect and after that the special function of the second character.
After these two functions you add the values of all your active characters to get your strength for the battle.

So both cards are completely active at the same time.
Frog - Di 07 Feb, 2006 09:58
Titel:
It depends on the text. If the text of the charater is: "At the end of my turn..." you can only do it at the end of your turn, after playing support cards. "On my turn" leaves you the choice when you want to execute the special function.
Ruwenzori - Di 07 Feb, 2006 10:36
Titel:
... and in addition, on your next turn you may add another member of the same gang (or several members, or KhindKin, or play leadership "Bounce Back"), and all special functions may be applied again. If the function text says "On my turn", this is even possible before you may have to retreat (as retreating is only the third phase of your turn).
trumpetfish - Di 07 Feb, 2006 12:05
Titel:
Hi dearlove,

thx for the new faq, which is always great work! Here goes my correction to one of the new issues:

Q: If you play Bottelus Emptius [Pillar 15] ("You may not take further
cards into your hand.") and then on my next turn you play Chosen of
Water [Aqua 32, E&I:B deck] ("Now we both shuffle our hands into our
draw decks, then we refresh our hands.") what happens to me?

A: First note that Chosen of Fire (comment: must be water!)
is played in my leadership phase, so
Bottlelus Emptius is still active. Then according to Rulebook page
17, under 4: 'If the cards instruct you to act, you must do so. If
you are unable to satisfy the instruction completely, you must act
as far as is possible.'. This means that you shuffle your hand into
your draw deck, but then you are unable to draw any cards due to the
special power text on Bottelus Emptius, which as "you may not" text
takes precedence over the remaining text on Chosen of Water.
(Rulebook page 17, second point: 'Cards reading "you may not..." take
precedence over all remaining instructions on other cards.'.) So you
end up with no cards in hand and, provided I do not retreat before
then, no way to acquire more cards. Note that a similar situation
applies with Wall of Fire [Vulca 26] ("You may not take cards from
your draw deck.") except that you can at least retrieve cards with
the RETRIEVE icon.

Greetings, trumpetfish
BlueMoonPie - Di 07 Feb, 2006 17:45
Titel: Helluva combo!
Thanks ErzEngel, Frog and Ruwenzori for the help! Wow, that makes for one helluva combo when using gang characters with power text! Not only do you get the increase in power, but you can really screw with someone with the power text! Not bad, not bad. I'd have to guess that the same rule applies to "Pair" character and booster/support cards as well, right? It all seems like an unfair advantage when you look at it from an opponent's point of view I guess. Thanks again guys!
Dearlove - Di 07 Feb, 2006 19:44
Titel:
trumpetfish hat folgendes geschrieben:
A: First note that Chosen of Fire (comment: must be water!)


Thanks for the catch. (I was writing about Wall of Fire and Chosen of Water and made the slip.) Not online yet, but will be in the next version.
trumpetfish - Mi 08 Feb, 2006 08:28
Titel:
Zitat:
I'd have to guess that the same rule applies to "Pair" character and booster/support cards as well, right?


Note, that you can't play two charcters with the pair symbol on different turns, one after the other (well, you can, but they won't add together, the old character would become inactive). They can be played only at the same turn, then being active both of them and adding values (and special functions, but there is no pair character with special function so far). That's the difference between pair and gang.

Greetings, trumpetfish
BlueMoonPie - Mi 08 Feb, 2006 08:31
Titel:
Thanks trumpetfish. After I wrote that I thought that I hadn't seen any pair cards with text, hehe. Take it easy!
Ruwenzori - Mi 08 Feb, 2006 23:42
Titel:
@Dearlove: could you give us a short note, when a new version of your FAQ is online? Thx.


Zitat:
Q: If I have an active Mekarthas the Shrewd [Hoax 16, Aqua deck] ("Your
icons are ignored, except STOP.") and play Rout Retainers [Hoax 30,
E&I:A deck] ("Now I may discard your active FREE cards.") do I
discard any of your cards?

A: No, you do not. As noted above, the phrase "FREE cards" is
interpreted as "cards with a FREE icon which is not ignored" and I do
not have any such cards due to all my FREE icons being ignored. Note
that if you did not have Mekarthas the Shrewd all my cards with FREE
icons would be discarded, whether active or not.

The last half sentence is wrong IMHO. As Rout Retainers speaks of your active FREE cards.

Can you recall the history of your answer given? In the German BM FAQ the opposite answer is given, and Sebastian states the same (I do discard the igored FREE cards) on August 2005.
Dearlove - Do 09 Feb, 2006 00:14
Titel:
[quote="RuwenzoriThe last half sentence is wrong IMHO. As Rout Retainers speaks of your active FREE cards.[/quote]

Good point.

Zitat:
Can you recall the history of your answer given? In the German BM FAQ the opposite answer is given, and Sebastian states the same (I do discard the igored FREE cards) on August 2005.


Archaeology on FAQ questions is a messy business. But I can tell you it was based on discussions including Reiner and Sebastian in September and October 2005. (I still have the emails.)

The point about this answer is that it's a spinoff. It derived from a discussion about what exactly the phrase "PROTECTED cards" meant. And then we interpret "FREE cards" in the same way.

As for the German FAQ, I can't comment. But I guess I ought to bring it up with Sebastian again. However I'm happy with the answer as it is (well, the significant part, not the throwaway error).
Ruwenzori - Do 09 Feb, 2006 00:25
Titel:
Zitat:
Q: If you have an active CoolCat [Khind 01] ("The odd printed values of
your character cards reduce to 0.") and Caterpillar Fireeater
[Pillar 16] ("By the end of your Booster/Support phase, you must
discard cards with a total printed value of at least 3 Fire from your
hand, or retreat.") can I discard Shimmer [Vulca 12] (Fire value 3)
to avoid retreating?

A: No you cannot, Shimmer's value is reduced to zero by CoolCat, leaving
it unable to satisfy the discard requirement.

The German FAQ says the opposite. Who is correct?


Zitat:
Q: If I have an active Tittertweet [Flit 07] ("Your special power texts
are ignored, except on Flit character cards.") and then, in a later
turn, play a new character card to cover it (without using
Tittertweet's RETRIEVE icon) can the new character be cancelled
using Shame on you! [Inter 402, E&I:A deck] ("I may play this card
when you play your first character card on your turn: Your card is
cancelled and discarded. You must play a replacement or retreat.")?

A: No, it cannot. Until the new character comes into play, Tittertweet
is uncovered and remains active, and prevents the use of Shame on
you!. (It does not prevent its play, but its special power text is
ignored and it has no effect.)

Sebastian told us, that in this case - special text ignored - the playing of an interference card is not allowed, as its playing condition is not fulfilled. However, you may REPLACE the interference card in this case.
Who is right?




Edit: changed incorrect wording to "interference card"
Dearlove - Do 09 Feb, 2006 00:44
Titel:
Ruwenzori hat folgendes geschrieben:
The German FAQ says the opposite. Who is correct?


Under discussion since it was raised on the BoardGameGeek.

As usual the best approach is not to attempt to answer this question in isolation, but to dig out the underlying principles, which is a slower process. And (as it's been Nuremberg) it's been especially slow.

Zitat:
Zitat:
Q: If I have an active Tittertweet [Flit 07] ("Your special power texts
are ignored, except on Flit character cards.") and then, in a later
turn, play a new character card to cover it (without using
Tittertweet's RETRIEVE icon) can the new character be cancelled
using Shame on you! [Inter 402, E&I:A deck] ("I may play this card
when you play your first character card on your turn: Your card is
cancelled and discarded. You must play a replacement or retreat.")?

A: No, it cannot. Until the new character comes into play, Tittertweet
is uncovered and remains active, and prevents the use of Shame on
you!. (It does not prevent its play, but its special power text is
ignored and it has no effect.)


Sebastian told us, that in this case - special text ignored - the playing of an intervention is not allowed, as its playing condition is not fulfilled. However, you may REPLACE the intervention in this case.
Who is right?


Sorry, I don't see the contradiction. The Q&A says you can't play the interference card (the question is whether the card can be cancelled, not whether the card can be played). You say Sebastian says you can't play the interference cards. Looks the same to me. (The Q&A doesn't discuss REPLACE, but yes, you could replace the interference.)
Ruwenzori - Do 09 Feb, 2006 00:50
Titel:
The contradiction may be a reading problem of mine.

"(It does not prevent its play, but its special power text is ignored and it has no effect.)"

Lets translate all "its". I was reading:
(Tittertweet does not prevent "Shame on you"'s play, but "Shame on you"'s special power text is ignored and "Shame on you" has no effect.)

And Sebastian says, you may not play "Shame on you", as its playing condition is not fulfilled.
Dearlove - Do 09 Feb, 2006 01:08
Titel:
Zitat:
I think Sebastian is probably right


No, I think Sebastian is definitely right. Correction not posted yet, I'm collecting a few and some are still outstanding (as noted above).
Ruwenzori - Do 09 Feb, 2006 09:27
Titel:
Dearlove hat folgendes geschrieben:
Just to be clear, we are all agreed that you can't play the interference card usefully.

No, we don't agree about this. Wink

First, we agree that you cannot play the interference card to use its special text.

Second, "usefully" is covering quite more aspects than (First). Imagine you had some dragons at your site, no draw deck and 3 interference cards at hand. You would consider it to be quite useful in this situation to be able to play one, and replace another one.
Another situation might be constructed being willing to use mutant 102
"I may only play this card if you have at least two more cards in your hand than I."
And many more...

Third, in terms of FAQ questions we never discuss how useful an action of a player might be. We just discuss the game rules Wink

best regards,
Ruwi
Ruwenzori - Do 09 Feb, 2006 09:30
Titel:
Dearlove hat folgendes geschrieben:
Zitat:
Can you recall the history of your answer given? In the German BM FAQ the opposite answer is given, and Sebastian states the same (I do discard the igored FREE cards) on August 2005.


Archaeology on FAQ questions is a messy business. But I can tell you it was based on discussions including Reiner and Sebastian in September and October 2005. (I still have the emails.)

The point about this answer is that it's a spinoff. It derived from a discussion about what exactly the phrase "PROTECTED cards" meant. And then we interpret "FREE cards" in the same way.

As for the German FAQ, I can't comment. But I guess I ought to bring it up with Sebastian again. However I'm happy with the answer as it is (well, the significant part, not the throwaway error).


My point regarding the history of that answer was, which answers were first and which last.

So I now know that Sebastians and the FAQ answer were first, and the one from Redamikanas and you later.

And I agree, I am much happier with the later version. But this is not the point. I wanted the German FAQ be consistent with actual gameplay, and in this certain question it is not (yet).

Thanks for clarification.
Dearlove - Do 09 Feb, 2006 18:09
Titel:
Ruwenzori hat folgendes geschrieben:
Dearlove hat folgendes geschrieben:
Just to be clear, we are all agreed that you can't play the interference card usefully.

No, we don't agree about this. Wink

First, we agree that you cannot play the interference card to use its special text.


Which is of course what I meant. Whilst usefully is not a ... useful ... word in the FAQ, right here it will do fine.
Sebastian Rapp / Kosmos - Mo 13 Feb, 2006 17:37
Titel:
Concerning History on Rout Retainers ...

I do remember the arguments between Chris and me (I still have the emails as well). Reiner was also involved of course. This was just before the "Spiel" in Essen. (I disagreed with the final answer, but this is of no relevance.)
So, it seems that I forgot to revise my former answer on this point. Sorry for that. English ruling is correct and should replace my answer.

Sebastian
Ruwenzori - Mi 22 März, 2006 09:30
Titel:
Regarding this Q/A we found a new situation.
Zitat:
Q: I am due to start a fight, but plan to decline to do so. But first I
play Charm Holy Dragon [Vulca 29] ("Now I may discard cards with a
total printed value of at least 8 Fire from my hand to attract one
dragon.") and I need to discard all my five remaining cards to do so.
What can I do now as I should discard at least one card to decline to
start a fight?

A: Decline the fight without a discard. There isn't actually a totally
clear-cut answer to this one, but this is in the best spirit of the
game, as the only rule which allows backtracking doesn't backtrack
far enough and doesn't cover this question exactly. (Rulebook page
18, under 11: 'the game may be backtracked to the situation before
the play of the character card.') Declining the fight without
discarding is now as close as you can get to following the rules.
(This is analogous to, but not actually covered by, Special Rule 4
on page 17 of the rulebook.) This is not a retreat, so you don't lose
a dragon.


New situation: I am behind in dragons, have just 1 card in hand, none left in draw pile, and it is the beginning of a new fight. The 1 card is leadership Aqua 31 "Now I may shuffle my discard pile into my draw deck."
I play it and have now a draw pile, but no cards in hand.

What happens now? May I decline to start a fight in the spirit of the answer quoted above, or do I have to retreat because of lack of chars loosing 1 dragon?
Geirröd - Mi 22 März, 2006 13:03
Titel:
This is covered in the german FAQ. You just have to discard in order to decline the fight, if you have cards at all.
If not, you may/have to decline the fight without a discard.

Greetings Geirröd

EDIT: I see you already know about it...
It's still there and the correct answer to the question anyways.
Ruwenzori - Mi 19 Jul, 2006 12:18
Titel:
@Dearlove: another open issue from the German forums part.

My opponent has a char with RETRIEVE. I have a char with RETRIEVE and an active Impenetrable Fog ("Your icons are ignored, except STOP and PROTECTED.").

Q: May I retrieve my char?

A1: Yes, the opponents RETRIEVE symbol is ignored and hence nothing prohibits me.
A2: No, an ignored RETRIEVE symbol ist still a RETRIEVE symbol (like ignored chars are still chars, and ignored symbols are still symbols), and rule prevents me from retrieving my char when my opponent has a RETRIEVE symbol on his char (rule does not say: an unignored RETRIEVE symbol, just active char with RETRIEVE)

best regards for clarification
Ruwi
Dearlove - Mo 31 Jul, 2006 19:10
Titel:
Ruwenzori hat folgendes geschrieben:

Q: May I retrieve my char?

A2: No, an ignored RETRIEVE symbol is still a RETRIEVE symbol (like ignored chars are still chars, and ignored symbols are still symbols), and rule prevents me from retrieving my char when my opponent has a RETRIEVE symbol on his char (rule does not say: an unignored RETRIEVE symbol, just active char with RETRIEVE)


Now in the English FAQ list. Incidentally I hope soon to have an HTML version as well as a text version. The base version is now an (unpublished) XML document with a custom conversion to text. I hope I'm being helped on the XML to HTML.
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