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Lachwurzn
Gott der Signaturen
Alter: 60
Anmeldungsdatum: 14.07.2004
Beiträge: 4055
Wohnort: Wien
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| Lachwurzn hat folgendes geschrieben: |
Sorry, I accidentally hit Edit rather than Reply, didn't notice I had and because I'm moderator here, it let me stomp all over your posting. I hope if I leave this here you can rebuild it. The quotations in my following piece are from what once was here. Now I know I can do that, I'll try to be more careful in future.
Christopher Dearlove |
No problem. I'm also moderator for certain forum sections and this has happened to me twice already.
There's no need to rebuild anything as you quoted my original text (and they were by no means worldshaking anyway)...
Lachwurzn
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kilrah
Gott der Taktiken
Alter: 48
Anmeldungsdatum: 10.03.2004
Beiträge: 2510
Wohnort: Salzburg
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| Actually, Dearlove, I'd consider taking that card into my deck. Any card that comes with a free symbol (a leadership card is almost the same here) and has 0 moons has its uses, if only to have a fast depleting deck.
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KivasFajo
Blue Moon Leader***
Alter: 48
Anmeldungsdatum: 15.03.2004
Beiträge: 687
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| Sorry, I think no one said that this card would have a FREE symbol.
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JeffK
Blue Moon Fan
Anmeldungsdatum: 07.11.2004
Beiträge: 11
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| KivasFajo hat folgendes geschrieben: |
| Sorry, I think no one said that this card would have a FREE symbol. |
His point was that Leadership cards are so easy to play that they might as well have a FREE symbol on them. They are, in fact, easier to play than cards with FREE symbols since you can even play them before retreating. Thus, they're pretty good for running out your deck.
Jeff K.
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KivasFajo
Blue Moon Leader***
Alter: 48
Anmeldungsdatum: 15.03.2004
Beiträge: 687
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Okay, you are right. I misunderstood his sentence.
However, as you cannot play more than one leadership card per turn, having many leadership cards (i.e. more than five) in your deck comes with a risk of getting a blocked hand.
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Dearlove
Blue Moon Playtester
Anmeldungsdatum: 22.03.2004
Beiträge: 258
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| KivasFajo hat folgendes geschrieben: |
However, as you cannot play more than one leadership card per turn, having many leadership cards (i.e. more than five) in your deck comes with a risk of getting a blocked hand.
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Funny you should mention that ...
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Dearlove
Blue Moon Playtester
Anmeldungsdatum: 22.03.2004
Beiträge: 258
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| JeffK hat folgendes geschrieben: |
Sorry, I think no one said that this card would have a FREE symbol.
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His point was that Leadership cards are so easy to play that they might as well have a FREE symbol on them. They are, in fact, easier to play than cards with FREE symbols since you can even play them before retreating. Thus, they're pretty good for running out your deck.
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They don't of course add to the cards in your combat/support area, which is the other major benefit of FREE cards.
In effect the question is would you take a zero moon Leadership card with the text "This card has no effect"? As a related question, would you pay a moon for a FREE support card with zero values and no text?
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JeffK
Blue Moon Fan
Anmeldungsdatum: 07.11.2004
Beiträge: 11
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| Dearlove hat folgendes geschrieben: |
His point was that Leadership cards are so easy to play that they might as well have a FREE symbol on them. They are, in fact, easier to play than cards with FREE symbols since you can even play them before retreating. Thus, they're pretty good for running out your deck.
They don't of course add to the cards in your combat/support area, which is the other major benefit of FREE cards. In effect the question is would you take a zero moon Leadership card with the text "This card has no effect"? As a related question, would you pay a moon for a FREE support card with zero values and no text? |
Certainly free characters/booster/support cards have advantages over leadership cards. They're generally better if you think you're going to win a fight, thus helping you get the 2 dragon win. Leadership, however, is certainly better if you want to retreat, since you can play one before retreating but can't play a character.
Would I take a 0 moon "blank" leadership or a 1 moon "blank" character?Definitely not in reply to both. The moons savings just wouldn't make up for the lack of impact of the card. Especially since there are zero moon characters that actually have fire/earth values, and some very nice 1 moon leaderships (Enthrall Opposition and Distract Holy Dragon, for example). Your opponent would not have their play forced in any direction, which is just not a good strategy. While support cards are, generally, more valuable than booster cards (for example), that's because their effects last an entire fight instead of one turn. Remove those effects and they become of equal value. The relative values of character vs. booster vs. support vs. leadership are based on the assumption that these cards will have some sort of effect on your opponent's play. The concept of a "blank" card is so foreign to the game that I don't know that it has much value when discussing the relative worth of the different types of cards. At least, based on the current playing environment, that is. 
All this, of course, is assuming that running out your deck is what you want to do in the first place, and does not take into account the specific texts one might find on said cards (not the theoretical "blank" ones), or the specific situations that one might find oneself in. 
Jeff K.
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kilrah
Gott der Taktiken
Alter: 48
Anmeldungsdatum: 10.03.2004
Beiträge: 2510
Wohnort: Salzburg
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| For some races (Hoax mainly) I'd consider paying a moon for "a FREE support card with zero values and no text" in order to reach the 6 Card limit for 2 Dragons? Of course it largely depends on the deck building strategy. I actually would prefer a booster however.
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Dearlove
Blue Moon Playtester
Anmeldungsdatum: 22.03.2004
Beiträge: 258
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| kilrah hat folgendes geschrieben: |
I'd consider paying a moon for "a FREE support card with zero values and no text" in order to reach the 6 Card limit for 2 Dragons? I actually would prefer a booster however.
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Why a booster? Both count towards six cards of course. The support has the minor advantage of not messing up the Khind, but that's incidental (I trimmed your quote above). They are differently vulnerable to removal cards (I haven't checked which are more vulnerable, boosters or supports - actually perhaps I should, although if this is your reason you can tell me). Other than those points I can't see a major difference when the card has no effect.
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JeffK
Blue Moon Fan
Anmeldungsdatum: 07.11.2004
Beiträge: 11
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| kilrah hat folgendes geschrieben: |
| For some races (Hoax mainly) I'd consider paying a moon for "a FREE support card with zero values and no text" in order to reach the 6 Card limit for 2 Dragons? Of course it largely depends on the deck building strategy. I actually would prefer a booster however. |
Why, when there are one moon boosters and supports that actually DO something? Fireblast which is a 3/2 booster only costs 1 moon. Flickering Fires is a 1/1 support that also prevents your opponent from playing leadership cards, and only costs 1 moon. And this is just from the Vulca deck. Not to mention the two zero moon Mimix boosters (1/2 and 2/1 respectively). Given current card environment, putting any blank cards into your deck just doesn't make any sense, as far as I can see.
Jeff K.
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kilrah
Gott der Taktiken
Alter: 48
Anmeldungsdatum: 10.03.2004
Beiträge: 2510
Wohnort: Salzburg
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@Dearlove:
Indeed I think that booster are less vulnerable. There are less cards that affect them I think. Also most cards can only attack active cards, so again a booster is saver. Finally most people take anti-support cards, while only few take anti booster cards (unless it is free for their race).
@JeffK:
Its all about the free symbol. When I am the starting player and all goes well I need 4 rounds to get 2 Dragons. With that booser I'd be there in 3. Granted I might pick Mindstorm or the Flit Multi Booster card instead which also cost 1 Moon IIRC. But I would 'loose' a card in hand that way and need to wait for a proper matching card which might be a disadvantage. I do not claim I would take such a card ANYTIME, far from it. But I see some uses for the card.
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Dearlove
Blue Moon Playtester
Anmeldungsdatum: 22.03.2004
Beiträge: 258
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| kilrah hat folgendes geschrieben: |
Indeed I think that booster are less vulnerable. There are less cards that affect them I think. Also most cards can only attack active cards, so again a booster is saver. Finally most people take anti-support cards, while only few take anti booster cards (unless it is free for their race).
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Actually as far as I can see, this isn't exactly so. I find 2 cards (T29, A30) which affect cards in combat area, hence only boosters and 4 (V14, K06, K07, T19) which affect both (one only with icons, but that applies here). Preventing you playing them the are 3 which affect both (H13, H26, T12/16 as appropriate), 2 which only affect boosters (M28, F10) and 1 which only affects supports (K26).
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Lachwurzn
Gott der Signaturen
Alter: 60
Anmeldungsdatum: 14.07.2004
Beiträge: 4055
Wohnort: Wien
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| kilrah hat folgendes geschrieben: |
@Dearlove:
Indeed I think that booster are less vulnerable. There are less cards that affect them I think. |
Actually, I just checked all exisiting official cards and found that 7 of them affect booster cards and 7 of them affect support cards. So it's a draw.
But it is correct that most cards can only attack active cards, so a booster is "more safe" theoretically.
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