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trumpetfish
Gott der extremen Themenrelevanz
Alter: 57
Anmeldungsdatum: 16.03.2004
Beiträge: 2155
Wohnort: Oldenburg (Oldb)
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| I'd have to guess that the same rule applies to "Pair" character and booster/support cards as well, right? |
Note, that you can't play two charcters with the pair symbol on different turns, one after the other (well, you can, but they won't add together, the old character would become inactive). They can be played only at the same turn, then being active both of them and adding values (and special functions, but there is no pair character with special function so far). That's the difference between pair and gang.
Greetings, trumpetfish
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_________________
Strategien mit Buka im Blue Moon WIKI!
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BlueMoonPie
Blue Moon Fan
Alter: 58
Anmeldungsdatum: 19.01.2006
Beiträge: 11
Wohnort: Tri-Cities, WA
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| Thanks trumpetfish. After I wrote that I thought that I hadn't seen any pair cards with text, hehe. Take it easy!
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Ruwenzori
Gott der eindeutigen Zweideutigkeit
Alter: 60
Anmeldungsdatum: 23.11.2004
Beiträge: 3642
Wohnort: Niederrhein
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@Dearlove: could you give us a short note, when a new version of your FAQ is online? Thx.
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Q: If I have an active Mekarthas the Shrewd [Hoax 16, Aqua deck] ("Your
icons are ignored, except STOP.") and play Rout Retainers [Hoax 30,
E&I:A deck] ("Now I may discard your active FREE cards.") do I
discard any of your cards?
A: No, you do not. As noted above, the phrase "FREE cards" is
interpreted as "cards with a FREE icon which is not ignored" and I do
not have any such cards due to all my FREE icons being ignored. Note
that if you did not have Mekarthas the Shrewd all my cards with FREE
icons would be discarded, whether active or not. |
The last half sentence is wrong IMHO. As Rout Retainers speaks of your active FREE cards.
Can you recall the history of your answer given? In the German BM FAQ the opposite answer is given, and Sebastian states the same (I do discard the igored FREE cards) on August 2005.
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_________________
Gourmet-Tipp: Spinat schmeckt am besten, wenn man ihn kurz vor dem Verzehr durch ein saftiges Steak ersetzt!
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Dearlove
Blue Moon Playtester
Anmeldungsdatum: 22.03.2004
Beiträge: 258
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[quote="RuwenzoriThe last half sentence is wrong IMHO. As Rout Retainers speaks of your active FREE cards.[/quote]
Good point.
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| Can you recall the history of your answer given? In the German BM FAQ the opposite answer is given, and Sebastian states the same (I do discard the igored FREE cards) on August 2005. |
Archaeology on FAQ questions is a messy business. But I can tell you it was based on discussions including Reiner and Sebastian in September and October 2005. (I still have the emails.)
The point about this answer is that it's a spinoff. It derived from a discussion about what exactly the phrase "PROTECTED cards" meant. And then we interpret "FREE cards" in the same way.
As for the German FAQ, I can't comment. But I guess I ought to bring it up with Sebastian again. However I'm happy with the answer as it is (well, the significant part, not the throwaway error).
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Ruwenzori
Gott der eindeutigen Zweideutigkeit
Alter: 60
Anmeldungsdatum: 23.11.2004
Beiträge: 3642
Wohnort: Niederrhein
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Q: If you have an active CoolCat [Khind 01] ("The odd printed values of
your character cards reduce to 0.") and Caterpillar Fireeater
[Pillar 16] ("By the end of your Booster/Support phase, you must
discard cards with a total printed value of at least 3 Fire from your
hand, or retreat.") can I discard Shimmer [Vulca 12] (Fire value 3)
to avoid retreating?
A: No you cannot, Shimmer's value is reduced to zero by CoolCat, leaving
it unable to satisfy the discard requirement. |
The German FAQ says the opposite. Who is correct?
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Q: If I have an active Tittertweet [Flit 07] ("Your special power texts
are ignored, except on Flit character cards.") and then, in a later
turn, play a new character card to cover it (without using
Tittertweet's RETRIEVE icon) can the new character be cancelled
using Shame on you! [Inter 402, E&I:A deck] ("I may play this card
when you play your first character card on your turn: Your card is
cancelled and discarded. You must play a replacement or retreat.")?
A: No, it cannot. Until the new character comes into play, Tittertweet
is uncovered and remains active, and prevents the use of Shame on
you!. (It does not prevent its play, but its special power text is
ignored and it has no effect.) |
Sebastian told us, that in this case - special text ignored - the playing of an interference card is not allowed, as its playing condition is not fulfilled. However, you may REPLACE the interference card in this case.
Who is right?
Edit: changed incorrect wording to "interference card"
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_________________
Gourmet-Tipp: Spinat schmeckt am besten, wenn man ihn kurz vor dem Verzehr durch ein saftiges Steak ersetzt!
Zuletzt bearbeitet von Ruwenzori am Do 09 Feb, 2006 09:21, insgesamt einmal bearbeitet
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Dearlove
Blue Moon Playtester
Anmeldungsdatum: 22.03.2004
Beiträge: 258
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| Ruwenzori hat folgendes geschrieben: |
| The German FAQ says the opposite. Who is correct? |
Under discussion since it was raised on the BoardGameGeek.
As usual the best approach is not to attempt to answer this question in isolation, but to dig out the underlying principles, which is a slower process. And (as it's been Nuremberg) it's been especially slow.
| Zitat: |
| Zitat: |
Q: If I have an active Tittertweet [Flit 07] ("Your special power texts
are ignored, except on Flit character cards.") and then, in a later
turn, play a new character card to cover it (without using
Tittertweet's RETRIEVE icon) can the new character be cancelled
using Shame on you! [Inter 402, E&I:A deck] ("I may play this card
when you play your first character card on your turn: Your card is
cancelled and discarded. You must play a replacement or retreat.")?
A: No, it cannot. Until the new character comes into play, Tittertweet
is uncovered and remains active, and prevents the use of Shame on
you!. (It does not prevent its play, but its special power text is
ignored and it has no effect.) |
Sebastian told us, that in this case - special text ignored - the playing of an intervention is not allowed, as its playing condition is not fulfilled. However, you may REPLACE the intervention in this case.
Who is right? |
Sorry, I don't see the contradiction. The Q&A says you can't play the interference card (the question is whether the card can be cancelled, not whether the card can be played). You say Sebastian says you can't play the interference cards. Looks the same to me. (The Q&A doesn't discuss REPLACE, but yes, you could replace the interference.)
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Ruwenzori
Gott der eindeutigen Zweideutigkeit
Alter: 60
Anmeldungsdatum: 23.11.2004
Beiträge: 3642
Wohnort: Niederrhein
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The contradiction may be a reading problem of mine.
"(It does not prevent its play, but its special power text is ignored and it has no effect.)"
Lets translate all "its". I was reading:
(Tittertweet does not prevent "Shame on you"'s play, but "Shame on you"'s special power text is ignored and "Shame on you" has no effect.)
And Sebastian says, you may not play "Shame on you", as its playing condition is not fulfilled.
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_________________
Gourmet-Tipp: Spinat schmeckt am besten, wenn man ihn kurz vor dem Verzehr durch ein saftiges Steak ersetzt!
Zuletzt bearbeitet von Ruwenzori am Do 09 Feb, 2006 09:20, insgesamt einmal bearbeitet
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Dearlove
Blue Moon Playtester
Anmeldungsdatum: 22.03.2004
Beiträge: 258
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| Zitat: |
| I think Sebastian is probably right |
No, I think Sebastian is definitely right. Correction not posted yet, I'm collecting a few and some are still outstanding (as noted above).
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Zuletzt bearbeitet von Dearlove am Do 09 Feb, 2006 23:55, insgesamt einmal bearbeitet
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Ruwenzori
Gott der eindeutigen Zweideutigkeit
Alter: 60
Anmeldungsdatum: 23.11.2004
Beiträge: 3642
Wohnort: Niederrhein
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| Dearlove hat folgendes geschrieben: |
| Just to be clear, we are all agreed that you can't play the interference card usefully. |
No, we don't agree about this. 
First, we agree that you cannot play the interference card to use its special text.
Second, "usefully" is covering quite more aspects than (First). Imagine you had some dragons at your site, no draw deck and 3 interference cards at hand. You would consider it to be quite useful in this situation to be able to play one, and replace another one.
Another situation might be constructed being willing to use mutant 102
"I may only play this card if you have at least two more cards in your hand than I."
And many more...
Third, in terms of FAQ questions we never discuss how useful an action of a player might be. We just discuss the game rules
best regards,
Ruwi
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_________________
Gourmet-Tipp: Spinat schmeckt am besten, wenn man ihn kurz vor dem Verzehr durch ein saftiges Steak ersetzt!
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Ruwenzori
Gott der eindeutigen Zweideutigkeit
Alter: 60
Anmeldungsdatum: 23.11.2004
Beiträge: 3642
Wohnort: Niederrhein
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| Dearlove hat folgendes geschrieben: |
| Zitat: |
| Can you recall the history of your answer given? In the German BM FAQ the opposite answer is given, and Sebastian states the same (I do discard the igored FREE cards) on August 2005. |
Archaeology on FAQ questions is a messy business. But I can tell you it was based on discussions including Reiner and Sebastian in September and October 2005. (I still have the emails.)
The point about this answer is that it's a spinoff. It derived from a discussion about what exactly the phrase "PROTECTED cards" meant. And then we interpret "FREE cards" in the same way.
As for the German FAQ, I can't comment. But I guess I ought to bring it up with Sebastian again. However I'm happy with the answer as it is (well, the significant part, not the throwaway error). |
My point regarding the history of that answer was, which answers were first and which last.
So I now know that Sebastians and the FAQ answer were first, and the one from Redamikanas and you later.
And I agree, I am much happier with the later version. But this is not the point. I wanted the German FAQ be consistent with actual gameplay, and in this certain question it is not (yet).
Thanks for clarification.
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_________________
Gourmet-Tipp: Spinat schmeckt am besten, wenn man ihn kurz vor dem Verzehr durch ein saftiges Steak ersetzt!
Zuletzt bearbeitet von Ruwenzori am Do 09 Feb, 2006 20:39, insgesamt einmal bearbeitet
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Dearlove
Blue Moon Playtester
Anmeldungsdatum: 22.03.2004
Beiträge: 258
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| Ruwenzori hat folgendes geschrieben: |
| Dearlove hat folgendes geschrieben: |
| Just to be clear, we are all agreed that you can't play the interference card usefully. |
No, we don't agree about this.
First, we agree that you cannot play the interference card to use its special text. |
Which is of course what I meant. Whilst usefully is not a ... useful ... word in the FAQ, right here it will do fine.
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Sebastian Rapp / Kosmos
Kosmos-Mitarbeiter
Anmeldungsdatum: 15.03.2004
Beiträge: 201
Wohnort: Stuttgart
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Concerning History on Rout Retainers ...
I do remember the arguments between Chris and me (I still have the emails as well). Reiner was also involved of course. This was just before the "Spiel" in Essen. (I disagreed with the final answer, but this is of no relevance.)
So, it seems that I forgot to revise my former answer on this point. Sorry for that. English ruling is correct and should replace my answer.
Sebastian
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Ruwenzori
Gott der eindeutigen Zweideutigkeit
Alter: 60
Anmeldungsdatum: 23.11.2004
Beiträge: 3642
Wohnort: Niederrhein
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Regarding this Q/A we found a new situation.
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Q: I am due to start a fight, but plan to decline to do so. But first I
play Charm Holy Dragon [Vulca 29] ("Now I may discard cards with a
total printed value of at least 8 Fire from my hand to attract one
dragon.") and I need to discard all my five remaining cards to do so.
What can I do now as I should discard at least one card to decline to
start a fight?
A: Decline the fight without a discard. There isn't actually a totally
clear-cut answer to this one, but this is in the best spirit of the
game, as the only rule which allows backtracking doesn't backtrack
far enough and doesn't cover this question exactly. (Rulebook page
18, under 11: 'the game may be backtracked to the situation before
the play of the character card.') Declining the fight without
discarding is now as close as you can get to following the rules.
(This is analogous to, but not actually covered by, Special Rule 4
on page 17 of the rulebook.) This is not a retreat, so you don't lose
a dragon.
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New situation: I am behind in dragons, have just 1 card in hand, none left in draw pile, and it is the beginning of a new fight. The 1 card is leadership Aqua 31 "Now I may shuffle my discard pile into my draw deck."
I play it and have now a draw pile, but no cards in hand.
What happens now? May I decline to start a fight in the spirit of the answer quoted above, or do I have to retreat because of lack of chars loosing 1 dragon?
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_________________
Gourmet-Tipp: Spinat schmeckt am besten, wenn man ihn kurz vor dem Verzehr durch ein saftiges Steak ersetzt!
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Geirröd
Gott des Hilfsbereitheid
Alter: 38
Anmeldungsdatum: 06.07.2004
Beiträge: 1799
Wohnort: Münster
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This is covered in the german FAQ. You just have to discard in order to decline the fight, if you have cards at all.
If not, you may/have to decline the fight without a discard.
Greetings Geirröd
EDIT: I see you already know about it...
It's still there and the correct answer to the question anyways.
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Ruwenzori
Gott der eindeutigen Zweideutigkeit
Alter: 60
Anmeldungsdatum: 23.11.2004
Beiträge: 3642
Wohnort: Niederrhein
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@Dearlove: another open issue from the German forums part.
My opponent has a char with RETRIEVE. I have a char with RETRIEVE and an active Impenetrable Fog ("Your icons are ignored, except STOP and PROTECTED.").
Q: May I retrieve my char?
A1: Yes, the opponents RETRIEVE symbol is ignored and hence nothing prohibits me.
A2: No, an ignored RETRIEVE symbol ist still a RETRIEVE symbol (like ignored chars are still chars, and ignored symbols are still symbols), and rule prevents me from retrieving my char when my opponent has a RETRIEVE symbol on his char (rule does not say: an unignored RETRIEVE symbol, just active char with RETRIEVE)
best regards for clarification
Ruwi
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_________________
Gourmet-Tipp: Spinat schmeckt am besten, wenn man ihn kurz vor dem Verzehr durch ein saftiges Steak ersetzt!
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